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Ben Appel: Cis White Gay

KEY MOMENTS

0:00 – Intro: Ben Appel and his memoir Cis White Gay
1:00 – The lost binky and a sleepless night ahead
2:05 – Why writing a memoir is excruciating
3:08 – Getting distance from your own life
4:13 – Reading old composition notebooks
5:22 – On fire for the Lord in a fundamentalist community
7:25 – Little House on the Prairie Christianity
8:30 – Covenant communities and Amy Coney Barrett
10:40 – Dogma and men's and women's roles
11:44 – The leaders' apology tour
12:50 – Leaving the community and his parents' split
16:59 – Growing up gay in a homophobic environment
19:03 – Being an effeminate kid
20:06 – North, Elijah Wood, and realizing he was gay
22:10 – Girlfriends in middle school
23:12 – Coming out in high school
24:13 – How different it is for gay kids now
26:19 – Getting involved in trans-rights activism
28:28 – Columbia's program for non-traditional students
29:34 – Disillusioned by campus culture
31:43 – When anti-racism looks racist
32:49 – Down the rabbit hole of trans medicine
33:49 – Humility, sobriety, and facing your demons
37:03 – Critical theory, postmodernism, and queer theory
38:06 – Universities as a Twitter feed
39:07 – Seminars like a church youth group
40:09 – Queer identity and who people actually date
41:11 – Victimhood as cultural capital
43:18 – The queer socialist utopia
44:24 – Hatred for the old gay guard
46:30 – Gay spaces and gay culture
47:33 – The Trevor Project's definition of gay
48:36 – Homosexuality is same-sex attraction
50:44 – Gay and lesbian groups captured by ideology
51:48 – "You're a bigot if you won't sleep with me"
52:53 – Effeminate boys and gender identity
54:56 – "A crime against humanity"
55:57 – Thirteen years cutting hair
58:06 – PTSD under the uniform and wrap-up

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Ben Appel, author of the memoir Cis White Gay: The Making of a Gender Heretic, joins Lou (broadcasting from his basement, hiding from a binky crisis) to talk about the pain of writing a memoir, growing up in a Christian covenant community, and being an effeminate gay kid.

We also get into going from trans-rights activist to heretic, the culture at Columbia, how queer theory captured gay rights groups, why same-sex attraction isn't bigotry, and his 13 years cutting hair.

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